A Darkly Funny and Dangerous Exchange with A Pagan Clergyman

 

An email chat with "Lord _____________," after my attempt to join a discussion group for abused Pagans.

        I am a Moderator for _____________. Men abused by women are fairly rare in mixed or public support groups, I am 1 of the very few in the group who share that background. I am also a "pastoral counselor" and legal advocate.

        Personally I am voting to deny your membership to the group. You have not demonstrated any qualifications of membership.

Bart: Sure, I understand. I really want to remain a member, so I have included my responses below.

I am not a counselor myself, but my employer is a MSW and founder of the Counseling Center of Ann Arbor. His work in the field has been amazing, and I am here representing him, essentially. He is tied up in clinical work, otherwise he would be doing the outreach himself.

        

        Writers and editors cause disruptions in support groups when they have no first hand experience as an effected member. While adamant they are trying to publish a writing to "help" or "educate" they tend to re-victimize the targets of their questions.

        I can see how that could happen. I have seen countless other similar projects out there, and I wanted to be different by making a more personal effort to contact people. Many editors or writers might steal blogs or public posts, or exploit their contributors. By joining your group, I am hoping to get to know more men who have suffered abuse, and by personal contact with them, work with them to better represent their stories. Essentially, I am an individual working on a small project. We have already gathered a lot of powerful first-hand accounts. Groups like yours can do a lot of good for a lot of people. If you should take me on as a member, I would continue to handle my project with care and sensitivity, working with your members to generate a powerful document on the subject.

        My preference would be to post an announcement of your interest and contact info so volunteers can contact you outside the group, even I would volunteer to communicate with you privately.

        I would love that. It's your group, and I don't want to throw off the balance by bringing my project in. I would love to talk more, and if you are willing to be a contributing writer, then I would really enjoy working with you. If I can be a member, then I will be an active one. Not just representing my project, but sharing my own experiences. I am a bit reticent about sharing my own stories, as I want to be sure they can be helpful and appropriate. I am sure in time that I will be able to bring my own insights to the table, and join your community with the same honesty and openness you would expect from anyone. What is unique about my project is that it is both personal and professional for me. I am working as an editor on this project primarily because I have a passion to help my community.  I am a writer and artist by training. At various points in my life I considered social work as a profession. My mother was a counselor, and a good one. When I saw how her work was affecting her, I drifted back to the arts. I believe I have the compassion for social work, but maybe I don't have the stomach. I admire what you all do, and I hope that I can do my part to help folks in need.

        At this point Lady _________ (Group Founder) has the final say of what happens next with group membership.

        Certainly. Please take time to think it all over, and I hope we get a chance to work together. Thanks for taking the time to get back to me and inquire about the project. I have moderated multiple groups online in the past, and I know how important it is to monitor member activities for the overall benefit of the group.

        Getting back to the stories themselves, I would love to talk more if you are interested in being a contributing writer on my book. I have been blown away by the stories I have collected, and I know that our readers will be very moved by what they read. And they will be motivated to help others in the same situation. Thanks again, and I hope we can chat some more.

Followup Email:

Barton, you actually made a case against yourself and proved my concerns correct. You have said you do not have an abuse history, are not a counselor, are just the errand boy for a MSW who does not have the time to do his own work (MSW which is a college degree not a licensed counselor by the way), THEN claim to have useful contributions for an entire membership of abuse survivors but you are supposedly only joining to collect material about male abuse survivors. Huh? My wife is red flagging you for a flagrant male privilege foul.

So far you have not yet made an attempt to contact the abuse recovery groups specifically for male survivors that I am part of and/or operate, instead I have only seen you trying to argue your way into a primarily female group by presenting yourself as a editor for book focused on men. Contradiction after contradiction, very much like the abusers that injured our members (of all genders). I do not see any care or sensitivity in your self claims of value without substance, I see a person trying to wedge their way into a community that does not include him while being exactly what that community is trying to get away from... non-consensual intrusion with false promises and under false pretenses.

This is CC'd to Lady ________, I done now that I already have enough of your testimony to sway a court judge (just so happens I am sitting in the chambers of our county judge who orders/presides over Domestic Violence related Orders of Protection).

Bart: This is unbelievable. You're way out of line lumping me in with domestic abusers. To equate what I'm doing with the abusers who hurt your members, that's utter nonsense. You're way out of line. I've joined similar groups as yours, with the simple intention of doing a bit of outreach for my project. Feel free to review my previous emails, and search any of our public material out there. You will find out exactly how wrong you are. I have come at this completely honestly, with full disclosure of my intentions, and you have decided to create a conflict. This is absolutely shocking, and surprising. What, exactly, are your credentials, that you feel justified in making these claims?

Don't want to include me in your extremely small and inactive group? That's fine. That's all you had to say. What you just left me as an email here is complete nonsense, and you have no basis for what you are saying. We'll have no more contact. Don't message me with anything else, or I'll consider it harassment. I repeat: Do not contact me with anything further, or it will be considered harassment. Further contact of any kind will put you in violation of anti-harassment laws in Michigan.

You've got it completely wrong. We're on the same side here, I think. My project deals in justice for men in abusive relationships, which you have even said you are. I'll stay as far away from your forum as I possibly can, because I think you're actually dangerous, making these kind of claims. Are you actually threatening me with the final line of your email? Save your energy. You are hurting your own cause by engaging potential members in these outrageous arguments.

Barton Bund

Films About Men in Abusive Relationships

THE FIGHTER (2010)

A father and sons are browbeaten and physically abused by a controlling matriarch. An especially painful scene midway through the film where the boxer's father is pelted with a frying pan.

MIDNIGHT IN PARIS (2011)

The film is a light comedy, and an unlikely choice for this list. But the arguments between Owen Wilson and wife Rachel McAdams are incredibly compelling. Her constant criticism is what we hear about in lots of our true stories. She tries hard to suppress her husband and fit him into a position he doesn't belong in. His dreamlike journeys through Paris nightlife are a great metaphor. How many men long for escape, and what do their dreams look like?

SECRETS AND LIES  (1996)

A beautiful and startling film about unconventional families. Timothy Spall portrays a patient man juggling the needs of his sister amidst his wife's unhappiness.

WHEN A MAN LOVES A WOMAN (1994)

Most guys wouldn't be caught dead watching this film, but it deals with the subject very directly. A man and woman and child are torn apart by addiction. It's a fairly shocking film, and very powerful. What appears to be a chick-flick is actually a very strong film that you wouldn't actually want to watch with your wife or girlfriend.

BLUE VALENTINE (2010)

A mesmerizing portrayal of a couple's rise and fall. Ryan Gosling's final speech will really nail it on the head for a lot of guys.

New Video

This is a new video created for the project. It's based on one of the stories from the book. Check it out:

Week Two: Just the FAQs

We have had stories coming in via email, and many people are wondering how to begin writing. Two words for you: Anything goes.

We want it in your words. We have laid out some sample questions in the "Week One" post. We have met a lot of great people via facebook and craigslist, but guys can post right here to this site as well.

Frequently Asked Questions: 

Should I change the names of the people involved?
Generally, yes. For the protection of everyone affected, go ahead and change the names. There may be children whose identities need to be covered. There may be lawyers or officials involved, and no matter how badly you might want to talk publicly about someone who hurt you or mistreated you, you should still find a false name for them. We have also done some minor editorial work to protect the identities of the people involved.

How long should the story be? 
Most stories come in the body of an email, or attached as a Word document. We will edit the stories down to 500-2500 words, generally. But it's your story. We want you to be free to write as fully and completely as possible. Don't edit yourself. Your voice needs to be heard, so write what you feel, and don't get too worried about length. A few stories have been too short, too general, and we have asked guys to expand them a bit.

I still have feelings for my ex. I don't want to portray her as a monster. 
We have gathered a wide range of stories. Some guys are very angry, of course. We understand that your emotions are complex, and sometimes the ones we love can hurt us the most. Don't worry, we want you to tell your story from your point of view, as truthfully as possible.  

Do we get paid for our story? 
Unfortunately we are a small operation, and we cannot afford to pay our contributors. Most of our writers have been happy to give us their story. They see it as a therapeutic exercise, a cathartic experience. Moreover, your story has the chance to do a lot of good for a lot of people.

Is there a deadline?
We are hoping to gather our stories between Summer and Fall of 2011. This blog will remain active, and your stories can still be told as the project goes further.

Week One

I picked the wrong week to quit smoking. 
I applied for this job on craigslist. My boss is a brilliant and insightful therapist with a passion for the subject. The idea is to create a book for men in abusive relationships. The project began in 2006, and stories started pouring in. I spent my first week going through the archives and reading the stories. Some are subtle; a guy tells of how the relationship began, and after a period of time, things go sour. Verbal abuse or lying, the sort of thing we hear about from time to time. The stuff we hear from friends going through painful breakups.
The next group are more extreme. Guys who have been physically abused and traumatized by the woman they love. Children are often involved, jobs and reputations are destroyed. They are all unique, but carry certain common threads. When the relationship is done, the man often says he will never allow himself to get close to anyone again. It's trauma, it's PTSD, it's a horrible situation. No one wants to be alone, but now these guys will choose a solitary life just to protect themselves.
One of the major questions is why he stays. When things turn bad, people stay, and they have their reasons. A child, a home, assets, and extended family. You can't blame a victim for their choices. They don't have good choices. And long after the relationship might seem over, and both partners are living separately, the abuse can continue.
I was shocked by some of the stories. I had to step away from the computer for a few minutes. I got on the patch yesterday, and so far so good. I remember my mother when she was working as a grief counselor, or working with abused young women. She took her work home with her. It became an obsession, the desire to help, to fix. She did amazing work with them, like I watch my boss now, doing amazing work with all kinds of people. I couldn't do it. Clinical therapists are strong enough to handle it. What I do as an editor of this book is just to try and represent the stories I see as best I can. These stories are in the guy's own words.
I'm collecting stories. If you have one, I'd love to hear about it. Leave it as a comment here, and your story could wind up in a book that could help thousands. Check in here from time to time. I have put out my feelers, on facebook, craigslist, all kinds of personal contacts. I'm becoming passionate about a subject I never quite understood before. And in these stories, I see my own reflection from time to time. In these guys' lives, I see my own, and it's terrifying.
When a friend is in trouble, we often ask them "Can I do anything?" I'm just glad to have something I can do. My boss and I can create a book.